3.5/Type II Hybrid into a 99 RL

[sr5guy]

OK without going into tons of detail here, you *COULD* do it.

1. For all intents and purposes the RL cams are equivalent to the Type I C32 Cams.
2. When you run Type II cams with a type I ECU, you get a lousy rich idle, poor top end performance and a CEL with a fuel supply code after driving the car for a week or two.
3. If the Type I = RL cams you can assume that the RL ECU is equivelant to a type I ECU. Therefore you will more than likely get the same problems as #2 when you install type II cams in an RL
4. The biggest problem here is the transmission. No matter what you do, the RL A/T is going to shift at 5900 RPM - just where the type II is starting to make good power! Even if you were to hold it in gear, the ECU will rev limit at 6150 RPM - and unfortunately the RL ECU isn't "chip-able" or even programmable.
5. My recommendation would be to install the type II manifold only, leaving the RL camshafts.
6. When installing the Type II manifold on the RL you're going to have to do some extensive modifications to the RL wire harness to get it to work.

-Matt

[Chrispy]

Matt if you were to do the Type II manifold, wouldn't you also want to use the 3.5 lower chamber? I ask only because of the EGR and bhg syndrome the 3.2 is prone to and because of the discussion in your thread about why bhg's occur in 3.2's.

[MondiVTEC]

Thanks for the info matt i knew there would be tranny issues



RL = 5900 rpm, Legend = 7000+/- rpm....

no chance

[Chrispy]

Not entirely Mondi. The Legend makes it's peak power near 6k, really anything over 6200 rpm is overkill, however, when the Legend hits it's shift point at WOT, it will drop back into the powerband sweet spot.

The RL shifts at 5900 because that's where it's peak power is, the shift point is set their for fuel economy. I'm not as familiar with the KA9, but I suspect when it shifts it drops out of power and has to pull back in the powerband.

It's kind of a horse a piece. I've been doing some reading and auto Legends vs and RL are closely matched in 0-60 as well as 1/4 mile times. A manual should easily beat an auto RL, but that's like comparing an apple to an orange IMO.

I still think a straight 3.5 or 3.5 hybrid KA7/8 would beat a KA9, while a stock Type I or II would be a much closer contest. Again this is merely speculation until we can test our theory

[94LegendaryAcuraGS]

Originally Posted by MondiVTEC

LOL you must be running low on sleep when you said this ^

Ive driven an RL and its a boat not a beast. The tranny is soft and the rpms are low. My GS used to scream up to 7200 and would have eaten any KA9 for breakfast, lunch, or dinner. A type I with an intake and sr5guy chip would dominate as well. Stock vs stock would be close but my money is on the lighter chassis

I have to agree with you 100000000% Mondi. My GS is in mid screaming, beating on its chest mode at 5900 rpm where the RL shifts as mentioned (Chrispy ) and it'll keep on screaming and shifts back down in the middle of its power band pandemonium. Its a lighter chasis as stated as well. I'll let you all decide about how higher RPM power isn't such a big deal (unless you run a superbike or a formula one race car).

Darn 2nd gear issue! hgeez: I'd get a willing contestant right now and let them drive MY Legend and I'd flog .... er I mean drive Mom's RL up against my own car. I'd tell the person driving my car there is cash money involved if they can beat the RL. Hands down end this discussion where it should be ended... on the streets!

[91ls 3.5]

Originally Posted by Chrispy

It's been discussed before, within the last year. You NEED to retain the OBD2 sensors so a 3.5 hybrid that was in a KA7/8 will not work, also cams = ecu, so type II cams are out of the question. What would be the point of a piggybacked ecu to gain maybe 5 extra hp and 5 ft lbs of torque? IMO the OP would be better off selling his hybrid 3.5 and rolling the stock 3.5 that comes with his soon to be KA9. The effort and money doesn't justify the results. No need to go through the time and effort to pull 2 motors and swap 1. If someone has the money to waste, then by all means go for it.

YOUR BUGGIN! I was in B-More 2 weeks ago and had the pleasure of driving a 02 RL around down there, nice feeling car has but ill put ANYTHING a healthy type2 will beat it.

[B+O]

Originally Posted by 94LegendaryAcuraGS

Now don't get me wrong the RL has good low end torque and was one of Acura's selling points when they introduced the model. It should be sufficient for you as long as 1) you don't need a hotrod and 2) you keep it in a straight line. If I didn't have a 2nd gear issue I'd put my GS with its 275K+ 3.2 against a RL RIGHT NOW. I'd say it may take me out of the hole initially but by the time I hit fire cracker rpms (4000 and above) I'll walk it down and show it my tail lights the rest of the trip. Don't even let there be curves as that luxury boat body rolls pretty hard with all that extra weight. Once my little project is done ALL KA9s better keep quiet or I'll spank them good and make them go cry over in the corner! Jen we don't even need to put you against an RL to end this "discussion" as a KA9 has NO CHANCE against a 3.5 KA7 Legend!

Sorry but you've not driven a newer RL before so you go saying "in a straight line"... Realize that is completely wrong... I'll put my RL up against any Legend stock for stock... Mod for mod... take me in the twisties and I'll honestly be surprised

The RL has less suspension slop by a LARGE degree than the Legend. any 02-04 RL rides stiffer and is more controlled than any legend stock to stock

Back to back my RL was as stiff or stiffer than a Legend on Koni+Eibach. and it's got big anti roll bars stock

it is what it is, you talk a big game but know nothing about the KA9s... get your experience up


BTW, either way we're still talking about 15 second quarter miles for both cars... Far from "barn burners" they're both slow LOL

[Chrispy]

^ we got 1 KA9 owner chiming in. I'd also like to hear Grumpy's thoughts as he has a more modified KA9

[B+O]

as far as the question is concerned... No it's not worth the headache you'll cause yourself.

If you get an older RL without VSA you may be in a less iffy boat, but if you get an RL with VSA, you're going to cause yourself a whole bunch of unnecessary grief and aggravation with the whole swapping. You CEL will be on constantly because you've removed lot of important things the car needs to run... you may even mess up the transmissions shift logic.

OMG i love the Fuzzy Logic transmission learning The fact I can swap in a Manual from the Legend doesn't hurt either, but that would give me problems with the VSA too unless i did a bypass circuit for the trans computer. can be done easily, but eh...

Either way, If you want the "performance" get some Type II cams and manually port your intake manifold but it wouldn't run well.... The best idea is probably just get a Legend MPYA and figure out how to get the trans computer to work with it. The MPYA has WAYYYYYYY shorter gearing than the trans in the RL. the RL can Keep pace with Legend, even with the RL's stupid tall gearing. If it had the actual Gearing from a Legend it'd likely a LOT faster than it is.


EDIT
Oh and some Arm Chair Racing. The Automatic to Automatic Comparisons put the RL and the Legend at nearly the exact same times. 15.7-ish. If the RL can run the same times with taller gearing then........

Some anecdotal stories of a guy with an 03RL racing his neighbor with an 06 RL... 03 kept pace... 06 isn't slouch in the world of "Legends" so no the RL isn't a big boat.

[sr5guy]

Originally Posted by B+O

as far as the question is concerned... No it's not worth the headache you'll cause yourself.

If you get an older RL without VSA you may be in a less iffy boat, but if you get an RL with VSA, you're going to cause yourself a whole bunch of unnecessary grief and aggravation with the whole swapping. You CEL will be on constantly because you've removed lot of important things the car needs to run... you may even mess up the transmissions shift logic.

I don't see the need to remove anything that would affect the VSA with a Type II Cam/Manifold swap. Obviously all RL wire harness and all sensors would be installed on his 3.5.

Originally Posted by B+O

OMG i love the Fuzzy Logic transmission learning The fact I can swap in a Manual from the Legend doesn't hurt either, but that would give me problems with the VSA too unless i did a bypass circuit for the trans computer. can be done easily, but eh...

Either way, If you want the "performance" get some Type II cams and manually port your intake manifold but it wouldn't run well.... The best idea is probably just get a Legend MPYA and figure out how to get the trans computer to work with it. The MPYA has WAYYYYYYY shorter gearing than the trans in the RL. the RL can Keep pace with Legend, even with the RL's stupid tall gearing. If it had the actual Gearing from a Legend it'd likely a LOT faster than it is.


EDIT
Oh and some Arm Chair Racing. The Automatic to Automatic Comparisons put the RL and the Legend at nearly the exact same times. 15.7-ish. If the RL can run the same times with taller gearing then........

Some anecdotal stories of a guy with an 03RL racing his neighbor with an 06 RL... 04 kept pace... 06 isn't slouch in the world of "Legends" so no the RL isn't a big boat.

That gearing makes all the difference. The shorter low gearing makes the legend and RL two completely different beasts. I've had the pleasure of driving a 96 and a 99 RL and they both felt very lazy around town, mainly due to the gearing. Can't say much of the suspension because both cars were pretty spent (170+K miles) with original suspension components.

-Matt